Slayer Propel Drive vs Mirage 180v2?

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jmdesignz2
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Slayer Propel Drive vs Mirage 180v2?

Post by jmdesignz2 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:41 pm

Slayer Propel Drive vs Mirage 180v2?

Any comparisons / thoughts on this? Long term issues? Power?
Hobie seems much lighter unless I get the Slayer LT

Will Hobie fix the weak reverse controls that keep breaking?

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Ring King
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Re: Slayer Propel Drive vs Mirage 180v2?

Post by Ring King » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:13 pm

Word on the street is that Hobie is already working on a "fix" for the issue.

The Mirage Drive (180 or older) is a more efficient design than the propeller powered drives. I believe that is due to the greater surface area on the fins versus the blade surface area on any of the propeller driven yaks. The Mirage Drive makes less noise than most of the propeller driven drives that I've tested or been around. The Mirage Drive also has a HUGE advantage over any of the propeller driven kayaks when used around underwater vegetation as the grass doesn't wrap up the Mirage Drive fins. This means less time pulling the drive to clear the weeds. The Mirage Drive also remains usable in shallower water than most of the propeller driven kayaks through the use of "flutter" kicks that keep the fins oriented horizontally. You get less thrust than you do with full pedal strokes but you can still maintain forward movement and steering.

That said the Propel Drive and other propeller driven offerings allow for instant hands free reverse whereas the Hobie requires a quick pull of the shifting mechanism in order to achieve reverse.
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JohnYaksJax
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Re: Slayer Propel Drive vs Mirage 180v2?

Post by JohnYaksJax » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:06 pm

Nice comparison above by Ring King!!

With the new drive...the MD180...Reverse Gear is pretty much a non-issue, and IMHO it never was much of one!! Maybe backing away from a dock or sandbar would be the only real advantage I see...and even then, the Native Propel drives only operate at about 1/2 speed since any propeller is designed to go Forward. The new Hobie MD180 actually turns the pedals around backwards so you have full power or thrust either direction.

Ring King made a great observation about the Propel Drives "eating" grass and vegetation. He also said the Propel is not as efficient and does not operate in shallow water. The drive is either IN the water full length or OUT of the water and it takes about 18-19" of water to be fully in the water....the Hobie kayaks can operate in 4-6" of water by "feathering or fluttering" the fins...just take shorter strokes and you can "park" them under the hull by pushing one pedal forward and one backwards, and that only draws about 2.5" of water in my Hobie Revolution.

The weight of the Hobie Mirage Drives used to be listed at 7.7# and the new MD180 is probably 8.5@#. The posted weight for the Native Propel drives is about 18#.

Finally, the Hobie kayaks with a Mirage Drive are quicker...faster?....than the Propel driven kayaks. On the Native Owner's Group forums, I saw that a guy pedaled a Native to a top speed of 4.5 mph...he showed his GPS while doing the test, and it was a test to see how quick his kayak was. The propeller causes "cavitation" which forms bubbles on the prop blades and slows them down..
I have personally pedaled at 7.2 mph in my Revolution 11. I was "racing" a father/daughter in their tandem Hobie Oasis that they purchased from me at BCO, and we were headed back to the ramp with a thunderstorm approaching behind us!! The Oasis does weigh more than the Revo, but they had two Turbo Mirage Drives and I had one in my Revo....and I finally slowed down to let them catch up and the father was "timing" me on his GPS. Guess that is not too bad for an older Grandfather type of 70 years young!! LOL!!!
Anyway, I have NOTHING against the Native Propel kayaks since I work at Black Creek Outfitters (very part time now) and we sell BOTH brands, so I get (got?) paid for selling either of them....Choose the one that is best for YOU!!!
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Ring King
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Re: Slayer Propel Drive vs Mirage 180v2?

Post by Ring King » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:28 pm

One more point to make......If you do hear of anyone making the complaint/comment that the Hobie is hard to shift into reverse please let them know that if you pedal while pulling the shifting lever it takes much less effort to achieve the shift and that the drives loosen up over time to the point where shifting requires very little effort. I recently saw a video review where a gentlemen was demoing a Titan Propel 13.5 and a Pro Angler 12. That was one of his complaints about the Hobie and also one of the deciding factors as to why he ended up buying the Titan. I guess whoever he was demoing the Hobie from didn't know that little trick and may well have lost a sale because of it.

I never thought I'd use reverse very much after pedaling Hobie Pro Anglers for the past 6 years without it. Boy was I wrong!! I use it all the time while bass fishing and could definitely see a huge use for it while fishing schools of reds in the marsh if I still lived somewhere that had that option. It's amazing for backing away from docks, schools of fish, or for staying off a spot where you just missed one. If you were catching schooling reds you could simply reverse away from the school as soon as you hooked up to try and keep from spooking the rest of the fish while you were trying to land the one on your line!
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Redfish Chaser
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Re: Slayer Propel Drive vs Mirage 180v2?

Post by Redfish Chaser » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:16 am

Each brand does have it's advantages! Up here in North Florida the "grass in the prop" is not much of a problem since we dont have the endless grass flats like they do down in Mosquito Lagoon and I rarely have to clean my prop while fishing creeks/river.

In my 6 years of owning a Native I have yet to be beaten speed wise by another brand kayak that was the same size and do not experience any cavitation from the prop. The instant reverse has proven to be very valuable while fishing docks/structure and aids while maneuvering. Finally, they say the best compliment is being copycatted and every new pedal drive system hitting the market now is similar to the Native Propel system!

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Fish & Paddle
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Re: Slayer Propel Drive vs Mirage 180v2?

Post by Fish & Paddle » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:48 pm

Conditions permitting, I prefer to stand and fish arties from my Propel. With the Propel, I can be standing and reach down and hand crank the Propel one or two times, and move along to fish the next stretch of water, without sitting down to do so.


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betoweb
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Re: Slayer Propel Drive vs Mirage 180v2?

Post by betoweb » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:46 am

I have been using my propel 10 for two years now. My biggest gripe is that it is difficult to align the prop to get it up through the hull. If you run aground and the prop gets pinned sideways under the yak, you are pretty much staked out, especially if the current is pushing you against the sandbar. There is an "indexer" available for $30.00 that will solve that problem. Should be on it stock !
I pretty much cruise at 3 mph and have never been able to get to 4 mph on my GPS.
I hope I never loose "that feeling" when I'm on the water ...

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SuaSponte
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Re: Slayer Propel Drive vs Mirage 180v2?

Post by SuaSponte » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:20 pm

I recently (few months ago) had the pleasure of swapping yaks with a friend of mine. He had the Native Propel 10' model and it was nice little kayak. My friend peddled my Hobie PA12 fully loaded and he was pulling away from me in the Propel 10' slowly but surely.

As far as weeds go, the above post is 100% right about that stat. I can get through vegetation 90% of the time without having to pull the pedals to clear and binds. Shallow water operation is great also in the PA, flutter kicking the peddles I can get through only a few inches of water. Where I had to pull the Native drive all the way up to get through shallow areas at Browns.
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