I can't believe it happened but it did and it will be interesting to see the outcome. Right now legislation is pending in some three dozen states to reject the health bill's mandate and benefits. Republicans believe they will make big election gains in November based largely on the health care vote.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 1CJ9MR.DTL

I wonder if Nancy Pelosi is gonna drop her insurance and go with this plan?
In my opinion this bill is unconstitutional. What are your opinions?
Get ready to go bankrupt America!

this country is screwed with this administration in place. hell we might as well all quit our jobs get lazy, collect unemployment, foodstamps, free healthcare, and as much gov't assistance as we can. it beats working and giving all your money back the gov't to support the lazy.

just think we should all have more time to fish now right.

this guy and his group of criminals has got to go

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Even after a bad day of fishing, it was still a good idea to call in sick to work!!!


Red Heritage Redfish 14

WOW!!!!

I feel healthier already

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"Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after." - Henry David Thoreau

OK Prowler 13 Angler (x2)
`•.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸ ><º>

This could be the beginning of a big problem here. When we allow the government to decide what we need it is not always a good idea. I wonder if we will indeed have 50 states when this is all said and done. A place like Texas could well decide they are going on their way and just leave on their own. Who really knows, with so many economic concerns and us having become a country who consumes more than we really make life is due to get quite interesting. We can conjecture about next November all we want but actions need to take place sooner. This is what we get for leaving professional elected officials in our government far too long. They have no clue as to the world outside their hallways and are frankly afraid to face the Americans they represent. Our current speaker is as disconnected from our American reality as the Queen of England. Our current President obviously never had a clue.

There have been efforts for universal healthcare from at least as far back as the mid 40's and it did not pass. There must be a reason it did not pass. Maybe wiser minds prevented it. Unfortunately, they were in the minority this time.

I am sure that a lot of people thought the Medicare plan was going to bankrupt the country. Well, in fact it has been a tremendous burden with so much waste, misspending and fraud it is sickening. I would venture to say (and I am sure stats are out there somewhere) that this cost as much as 10 percent of the total outlay of benefits. That is an unbelievable amount of money.

There are some good things about the bill. Maybe the Republicans will be able to massage it to a more affordable plan once they get majority again. Surely they will soon.

If they don't address tort reform in a major way, the ship will sink. This reform will be key to making this work. Elimination/reduction of test after test by the doctors/hospitals to protect their butts would significantly change our health care system

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Hobie Pro Angler 12

I once saw a report, wish I find it again, about American health workers being over educated (way to costly) and under experienced. It was food for thought at the time. The point was to access the cost verses value of education being provided without real world experience.

What still amazes me is that young people are all for this reform. The same student liberals that burned President Bush in effigy on campuses because they felt he was a "fascist" (the most misused word of our time), somehow support the government sticking their nose in the private sector (likely because they don't pay any taxes yet).

Republicans had a perfect opportunity in the last presidential election to go back to basics:

Government Intervention is a bad thing.

I didn't hear McCain mention it once. Instead, it was pork-barrel spending and Joe the Plumber.

It shouldn't be hard to convince the youth that Big Government is a bad thing. If anything it should be easy. Why can't the right pull it off?

Like most political discussions you attempt to have with liberals, any opposition to their way of thinking is uncompassionate. You don't support health-care reform, then you don't care about someone who can't get the best cancer treatment.

This country does not give you the right to health care. It shouldn't. This country gives you the opportunity to work hard and pay for the best benefits you choose for your family. At least it used to. Who knows where things are headed now?

I used to be a professional musician and I loved it. I quit that life and got a corporate gig so my wife and I could have decent medical care. Hard work = Benefits, whatever those benefits may be (house, medical care, more free time to fish, etc.). It's a lost concept.

Well, one thing for sure, I'm a young person and I highly dissagree with this attempt at communism. We are a country founded on freedom and hard work and a lot of people have forgotten that and it's sad to say my generation has bought into it hook, line and sinker. As for overeducated healthcare workers I beg to differ. A major problem in healthcare is an over-abundance of under educated people. This opinion has been made by me from working in healthcare for almost 4 years now. The nurses that most people interact with on a daily basis are actually LPNs which requires 2 years of school of less. Some are even Medical Assistants which takes about 6 months to aquire. These people are performing procedures on patients every day that they are in no way qualified to do. All of this is because of Medicare and the like causing a hike in medical costs, thereby making employers hire less educated people because they would rather pay an LPN $15/hr or less instead of paying a RN or BSN $20-$30 dollars. Oh, btw, I'm a Medical Technologist (MT) which is a laboratory scientist who performs clinical testing on patient samples including biochemistry, hematology, blood bank, microbiology, genetic studies and the like. It requires a 4 year degree and every bit of it is important. But the same thing is happening in the lab. MLTs are medical laboratory technitians and it only requires an associates degree and many places are hiring them as a cheaper means to do the work. And while these workers are educated to an extent, they are in no way as prepared to make life or death decisions for a patients sake as a MT right out of school. We are actually trained to diagnose patients using nothing but their lab work (which is pretty kool if you ask me).

Anywho, just thought I'd put my two-cents worth into the pot. Keep up the good fight everyone!

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Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and his wife will kill you!

This is a mis attributed quote, but I think it fits the discussion:
[b]A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage. [/b]

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"I got my toes in the water, ass in the sand, not a worry in the world a cold beer in my hand"

yellow Ride 135

Well, it was announced today that President Obama signed the health care reform bill. Everyone mark this day in you memory cause this is the beginning of the downward spiral for our once great nation. By 2014 it will be law that all citizens have health care or face a $656 fine. I've always said that government has no buisness telling it's citizen what they have to do but it looks like it's gonna happen. Next will be guns. I pray something will happen to set it all right again for the sake of my 5 month old daughter and all the children who will have to endure this new form of "democracy." May God have mercy on us.

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Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and his wife will kill you!

I sure miss Ronald Reagan ! ! !

...and Patrick Henry, George Washington, John J [1st Chief Justice], etc...

I heard today that Newt Gingrich is considering a run....?

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Home Theater Installation

The new bill is already costing me more. I had to go to the range yesterday and shoot out some of my frustrations. A couple of hundred rounds helped a little.

Kevin that sounds like a great idea - did you find any Pelosi targets to shoot at??


BTW, Jerry is absolutely right - without tort reform, this bill will bankrupt this country. Or did they not address tort reform because they know this bill will drive us to gov't single payor and the attorneys won't be able to get crap out of the gov't anyway?

There's one other thing the liberals fail to address which will ultimately cost us dearly. They always talk, in any argument about an entitlement program, about taking care of those who are 'less fortunate'. In that group, they include those who CAN NOT take care of themselves - which I am all in favor of the government caring for; but they also include the huge (but somehow never mentioned) group of those who WILL NOT take care of themselves. This is the group that elected the current administration and wants to keep them in power. Those who CHOOSE to live off of government assistance rather that take the personal responsibility of providing for themselves and their families. I see this group EVERY DAY at work. Unfortunately for this great nation, this group has grown in numbers to the point where they can actually elect leaders who will cater to them. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is dying, and if we don't do something now we're headed for full European socialism. Any conservative candidate worth electing will include entitlement reform as a major part of their platform.

Lets cut off the WILL NOTS so there will be plenty of resources to rightfully care for the CAN NOTS, and restore our budgets to the black in the years ahead. DONT SPREAD MY WEALTH, SPREAD MY WORK ETHIC

Geez, that sounded like a stump speech

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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"I don't carry a gun to look for or start a fight...I carry a gun to end a fight I never wanted to be in."